[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

Ok, so here it is.

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

I have been reading soooo many threads lately about self-image and your eyes playing tricks in the mirror and so forth and so on, and people being down on themselves. and it makes me sad and angry all at the same time and heres why.

I guess that’s because this is a place where people come for support at times when they need it. WLS has a huge impact not only physically but psychologically and with such huge changes there is a period of adjustment.

Pre op us fatties had food to turn to in times of trouble or joy, post op that massive (No pun intended) source of comfort and support has been wrenched away so is it too hard to accept that it takes people time to come to terms with their new image and shape? and why they would come here for affirmation and support from their peers?

Many fat people have had years of people seeing them as abnormal, lazy, lacking self respect, etc. Is it any small wonder why they develop low self-esteem and a poor self-image of how they look? Therefore is it really that difficult for you to understand why this low esteem is carried into their new smaller lives for a while?

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

Fat or skinny, ( i am sort of fat, yeah i'll admit it ) you are the same person you were before, there is just less of you physically, and the person before this journey began was and still is "the greatest thing since sliced bread". and that is the attitude you need to have now.

I agree and I’m glad you said this. You are indeed the same person post op and you carry with you for a period of time post op the baggage that has conditioned your self-image .

Years of conditioning are not going to be assuaged overnight, heck for some people they are never banished completely. Even non WLS people have self image issues. Recent studies have shown that the vast majority of people are unhappy with parts of their body. You yourself have alluded to issues with spots, flat backside etc.

To expect people to just develop a “best thing since sliced bread” mentality just because they have lost a little weight is naïve at best and shows a total lack of empathy at worst.

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

YOU can change your own self-image and display to the world how awesome you are. "greatest thing since sliced bread" attitude.

Yes you can but not overnight, it takes a period of adjustment to build self confidence. For some the conditioning is too deep and they never see themselves as having value just because they are alive and well. These people need support not to be told snap out of it or simply to sort yourself out.

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

Lastly, STOP, and i mean STOP comparing yourself to other people, you are not nor should you dare compare yourself to someone else, because you are not them hell in most cases you are better. (act like it). . This is a process, it's all a process. and even though some folks here feel as though they haven't done enough losing weight (regardless of the amount) and getting healthy is a good thing. Look at it this way as my grandmother use to say " i may not be what i want to be, but i am NOT what i use to be". Take this time to rejoice in your accomplishments and relish in the compliments and smiles and phone #'s you get at the mall as you shop for smaller clothes.

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

Love yourself as though you are the greatest thing since sliced bread

"it's all a process"

I find this section of your post to be contradictory. You say it is all a process and that is very true. So demeaning people’s self image issues and telling them to simply change their attitude and stop whining on about it doesn’t help them through the process, and is not what support forums are all about.

It’s like telling someone addicted to narcotics to just give up, or someone suffering with clinical depression to just get over it. If it were that simple then the world wouldn’t need psychologists or therapists.

I don’t doubt your motives for writing this. I don’t doubt that you have conquered your self-image doubts and that you truly believe you are the best thing since sliced bread. I do however have concerns for the feelings of those here who do have self-image issues who read your thread and find it not so easy to do the same. This doesn’t help them or show empathy with them.

Just my two Bobs worth and worth not a handful of beans. Have a great day

[TheRainbowsEnd]

To Quote Karlos:

It’s like telling someone addicted to narcotics to just give up, or someone suffering with clinical depression to just get over it. If it were that simple then the world wouldn’t need psychologists or therapists.

I don’t doubt your motives for writing this. I don’t doubt that you have conquered your self-image doubts and that you truly believe you are the best thing since sliced bread. I do however have concerns for the feelings of those here who do have self-image issues who read your thread and find it not so easy to do the same. This doesn’t help them or show empathy with them.


When I first came to this forum and voiced my frustrations at not losing fast enough and being frustrated by the scale, I received alot of advice. And some of it was helpful and some of it wasn't. I think the thing I sought most was an ear from people who were experiencing the same thing I was. People who knew about low self esteem and about the WL struggle. I am not sure we can give people instant answers. I wasn't looking for those just some kind words to me to help me through. Someone to say I understand. Not this is what you need to do..or don't need to do.

I think as individuals it is up to each of us to find our own way, our own coping methods, our own solutions. So I think when posting I try to keep this in mind. I try to say what works for me. It's helpful to share because people can say oh wow that might work for me. But we also need to be careful to make sure we are not forcing our ideas of what is right and wrong on others.

This is no way negates your post which I found to have alot of good thoughts. I am just saying the "Stop that mentality" does not work for everyone.

I do weigh myself twice a day. I do look to the scale to motivate me and piss me off at the same time. It does work for me. Does it cause me undo stress. Probably yes...But for me it works. I need to see those numbers. I need to see those pictures every week telling me I will get there. Perhaps even the scale thing helps me in if indeed I am fixated on it then I am not thinking about food...Laughing..So you might say I have transferred my addiction to the scale...but it's not just that...it's dancing, zoomba, yoga, walking, reading, clothing shopping, shoe shopping, having my nails done, my hair done, a pedicure (haven't had one in ages!) that are all helping me to see myself in a different light.

Everyone has their own light and their own way of seeing it. And it is always changing....

[Ebonidoll]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I guess that’s because this is a place where people come for support at times when they need it. WLS has a huge impact not only physically but psychologically and with such huge changes there is a period of adjustment.

Pre op us fatties had food to turn to in times of trouble or joy, post op that massive (No pun intended) source of comfort and support has been wrenched away so is it too hard to accept that it takes people time to come to terms with their new image and shape? and why they would come here for affirmation and support from their peers?

Many fat people have had years of people seeing them as abnormal, lazy, lacking self respect, etc. Is it any small wonder why they develop low self-esteem and a poor self-image of how they look? Therefore is it really that difficult for you to understand why this low esteem is carried into their new smaller lives for a while?



I agree and I’m glad you said this. You are indeed the same person post op and you carry with you for a period of time post op the baggage that has conditioned your self-image .

Years of conditioning are not going to be assuaged overnight, heck for some people they are never banished completely. Even non WLS people have self image issues. Recent studies have shown that the vast majority of people are unhappy with parts of their body. You yourself have alluded to issues with spots, flat backside etc.

To expect people to just develop a “best thing since sliced bread” mentality just because they have lost a little weight is naïve at best and shows a total lack of empathy at worst.



Yes you can but not overnight, it takes a period of adjustment to build self confidence. For some the conditioning is too deep and they never see themselves as having value just because they are alive and well. These people need support not to be told snap out of it or simply to sort yourself out.




I find this section of your post to be contradictory. You say it is all a process and that is very true. So demeaning people’s self image issues and telling them to simply change their attitude and stop whining on about it doesn’t help them through the process, and is not what support forums are all about.

It’s like telling someone addicted to narcotics to just give up, or someone suffering with clinical depression to just get over it. If it were that simple then the world wouldn’t need psychologists or therapists.

I don’t doubt your motives for writing this. I don’t doubt that you have conquered your self-image doubts and that you truly believe you are the best thing since sliced bread. I do however have concerns for the feelings of those here who do have self-image issues who read your thread and find it not so easy to do the same. This doesn’t help them or show empathy with them.

Just my two Bobs worth and worth not a handful of beans. Have a great day

My apologies for offending you, and implying that i maybe non empathetic or seem as if i am not trying to help anyone. In case you haven't gathered from the post, I, too have had WLS, and deal with self-image issues, i have dealt with the teasing and people not taking me seroiusly because of how i look and so forth and so on.

however, my intent of this post is to ask people to STOP and LOOK. take it all in, you are better person now, you are improving yourself. you are better today then you were yesterday. and tomorrow will be even more kickass. Rejoice, in that. and try not to sell yourself short so often.

Again, since this is a support group.. i am allowed to express how i feel and why, and you are allowed to hate how i express myself..

We'll both get over it...


"it's all a process"

[mynewleaseonlife]

Yes! Yes! Yes!!

[Perfesser]

When she was younger, my mother (who thought a BMI of 23 was fat on her!) was very self-conscious of her Roman nose (no doubt inherited from her Italian father.) So she had rhinoplasty (a nose job) and got a new, cuter nose. It really looked good on her!

She wasn't happy with it, though, and still thought her face was ugly. Because of her negative self-image. You can change the packaging, but unless you change the contents, there's no difference.

Is that sort of like what you're trying to convey?

(BTW - it wasn't until she divorced my mentally abusive father and had been remarried to a really great guy for a few years that she loosened up enough to accept herself for who she was.)

CT

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Ebonidoll

My apologies for offending you, and implying that i maybe non empathetic or seem as if i am not trying to help anyone. In case you haven't gathered from the post, I, too have had WLS, and deal with self-image issues, i have dealt with the teasing and people not taking me seroiusly because of how i look and so forth and so on.

however, my intent of this post is to ask people to STOP and LOOK. take it all in, you are better person now, you are improving yourself. you are better today then you were yesterday. and tomorrow will be even more kickass. Rejoice, in that. and try not to sell yourself short so often.

Again, since this is a support group.. i am allowed to express how i feel and why, and you are allowed to hate how i express myself..

We'll both get over it...


"it's all a process"

I didn't hate your post, neither was I offended by it. I merely found it to be trite and patronising towards those who might not yet have reached your level of recovery from what might be for them deep rooted self image issues that wont be resolved by someone who doesn't know them telling them to pull themselves together.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as those who need it are entitled to ask for support from the forum in rebuilding their self esteem. Have a great weekend

[DocSanae]

Originally Posted by Karlos

I merely found it to be trite and patronising towards those who might not yet have reached your level of recovery from what might be for them deep rooted self image issues that wont be resolved by someone who doesn't know them telling them to pull themselves together.

I hope both of you will back down from each other. Of course everyone is at different stages in every single aspect there are to this journey. Sure, Eboni's wording may have been strong, but that's who she is, just as everyone is who each one is. If you're around long enough, you start understanding the train of thoughts of those who post on a fairly regular basis. Besides, she isn't really putting anyone down, what she's suggesting is making a change in point of view. Plus, she's entitled to write what she thinks now, how she thinks now, from the point she is at now--almost a year from surgery--in any thread that she is the OP, provide it isn't a personal attack on someone, or things that have a purpose unacceptable to this board. Stating that her post is "trite and patronising" is rather judgemental to the OP. Some may feel as you do, but it just might be that for some, that's just the *kick* they needed to change their gear in thinking, and help them get out of the rut. You never know.

If everyone stopped expressing their honest thoughts in threads they started, becuase there may be people who think these thoughts would be "trite and patronising" towards the readers, pretty soon, no one will ever post their honest feelings. All they would say would be something like "Congrats, you're doing well" "Sorry to hear you're having some issues, hang in there, things will get better" and all anyone will post will be things like "Hey, I've lost 50lbs in 3 months and feel so well" "Hey, my surgeon was pleased with my progress" and things etc. Supportive, yes. Helpful? That's a big question. Because the biggest objective of support groups and support boards is to know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE, YOUR THOUGHTS-THE FEARS, THE JOYS, THE ANGERS, THE FRUSTRATIONS, THE TEARS, THE LAUGHTERS-are all what someone else, if not all, have gone through. Been there, done that, you ain't alone. So, if no one vented or ranted, if no one talked about the *dark* side of the journey, if no one posted how they dealt with them, what good are support groups and boards? The person who reads them may not be ready for some posts at that particular time, but that happens when people from all walks get together. If you aren't ready, all you need to do is to ignore and walk on. Maybe it will stick in your back burner, and you will come back to it some day, because you know you now need it. Nobody knows.

This doesn't mean anything goes, it means that threads and posts that are worded thoughtfully but may be a tad strong--provided they aren't personal insults and attacks, breaches the privacy and posting rules we have, or have agendas unacceptabel to the board--are acceptable, no matter what the theme is, so long as it has to do with the weight loss journey.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by DocSanae

I hope both of you will back down from each other.

There is no issue between us Doc just two people passionate about their positions is all.

Originally Posted by DocSanae

Stating that her post is "trite and patronising" is rather judgemental to the OP. Some may feel as you do, but it just might be that for some, that's just the *kick* they needed to change their gear in thinking, and help them get out of the rut. You never know.

Maybe so Doc and it was not my intention to judge the OP merely explain that these were my reasons for posting as I did, rather than the assumption by the OP that I was offended by, or hated what she had written, neither of which is true.

You're right maybe this thread is the kick that will bring about a total and complete cure for those who have experienced years of self image conditioning. Maybe.............

Originally Posted by DocSanae

If everyone stopped expressing their honest thoughts in threads they started, becuase there may be people who think these thoughts would be "trite and patronising" towards the readers, pretty soon, no one will ever post their honest feelings. All they would say would be something like "Congrats, you're doing well" "Sorry to hear you're having some issues, hang in there, things will get better" and all anyone will post will be things like "Hey, I've lost 50lbs in 3 months and feel so well" "Hey, my surgeon was pleased with my progress" and things etc. Supportive, yes. Helpful? That's a big question. Because the biggest objective of support groups and support boards is to know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE, YOUR THOUGHTS-THE FEARS, THE JOYS, THE ANGERS, THE FRUSTRATIONS, THE TEARS, THE LAUGHTERS-are all what someone else, if not all, have gone through. Been there, done that, you ain't alone. So, if no one vented or ranted, if no one talked about the *dark* side of the journey, if no one posted how they dealt with them, what good are support groups and boards? The person who reads them may not be ready for some posts at that particular time, but that happens when people from all walks get together. If you aren't ready, all you need to do is to ignore and walk on. Maybe it will stick in your back burner, and you will come back to it some day, because you know you now need it. Nobody knows.

This doesn't mean anything goes, it means that threads and posts that are worded thoughtfully but may be a tad strong--provided they aren't personal insults and attacks, breaches the privacy and posting rules we have, or have agendas unacceptabel to the board--are acceptable, no matter what the theme is, so long as it has to do with the weight loss journey.

Expressing one's own thoughts is absolutely fine as you say Doc, I have no problem at all with that, nor do I have an issue with the OP or posts regarding the dark side of WLS. I am far from being a Kittens and Rainbows kind of guy. I just figured that for every one who found the OPs thread uplifting and an affirmation of their personal stage of inner development, there would be as many who found it unhelpful to have to read how a member of the forum thinks that they should simply pull themselves together and forget the years of self doubt regarding their image. It could even make them feel worse, as you say "nobody knows"

I am glad to read of your belief that we are entitled to post what we think to be true, because that is exactly what I tried to do.

Thanks for your input Doc I appreciate it

[chantelc]

Agreed! Amen!!