[clancythecamper]

I'm kinda thinking something thru and want your imput.

When we eat starches & sweets it triggers endorphins in our brains which make us feel good, right? It's a chemical kind of thing, right? So, of course, our fall back behaviours want us to "feel better" so we should eat that which gives us that quick fix ~ this is where addiction concepts come into play, right? I'm wondering if this is kind of a neurological problem to some degree due to how we process thoughts, feelings, actions, etc in our brains and the chemicals it triggers to deal with whatever feedback it's getting (fight or flight syndrome, for example) I'm wondering if there has ever been any studies on re-routing neural pathways as a means of fighting obesity ~ bio-feedback, maybe? Also, is it physical or acquired? Nature vs. Nurture? Why do I have such deep thoughts this early in the morning? LOL - gotta go to work, just curious.

Have a great day everyone

[A new me]

Clancy I can totally relate to what your saying. Only problem my brain doesnt function quite as well as yours this early in the morning.
I do better late at night.

[DocSanae]

Originally Posted by clancythecamper

I'm kinda thinking something thru and want your imput.

When we eat starches & sweets it triggers endorphins in our brains which make us feel good, right? It's a chemical kind of thing, right? So, of course, our fall back behaviours want us to "feel better" so we should eat that which gives us that quick fix ~ this is where addiction concepts come into play, right? I'm wondering if this is kind of a neurological problem to some degree due to how we process thoughts, feelings, actions, etc in our brains and the chemicals it triggers to deal with whatever feedback it's getting (fight or flight syndrome, for example) I'm wondering if there has ever been any studies on re-routing neural pathways as a means of fighting obesity ~ bio-feedback, maybe?

Many of the anti-obesity medications work on the receptors--interfere with the neural pathway of feeling better with food, so that already exists. Unfortunatley, this effec lasts only as long as the particular chemical is around. Hence, the medications are effective only while in use. I believe there has been some theoretical experimentation with electrically *destroying* certain areas of the brain--a kind of lobotomy, but there are pros and cons for this, especially since the change is meant to be permanent. I can't really tell you how long it will take for these treatments to become safe and available, though, because I can't keep up with everything. As far as medication goes, I know that for every one that is marketed, there are thousands that have disppeared, even after having been heralded as the *miracle* drug while in the animal experiment stages.

Also, is it physical or acquired? Nature vs. Nurture? Why do I have such deep thoughts this early in the morning? LOL - gotta go to work, just curious.

By physical, I take it you mean congenital/born with. I'd say it's a little of both. One probably is born with a degree of tendency towards, that becomes full blown with a trigger, or a set of triggers. The degree of tendency probably also varies with the person/families.

It's pretty much accepted now that different ethnicities differ in their ability to process nutrients favorably. For instance, Asians deal better with carbs, while Europeans/European descent Americans deal better with meat. In other words, Asians often are able to process rice without being *overloaded* but can't process meat, especially animal origin fat in the meat well, so that becomes a stress factor in their metabolism. European/E-Americans on the other hand, can process the animal origin fat better, but can get an *overload* from carbs/grains.
So, with the western type of foods crowding out the traditional foods in the Asian countries is causing an alarming rise in diabetes, even through the ratio of obesity is not as bad as in the US and Europe. At the same degree of overweight/obesity, the probablity of developing diabetes is higher with Asians. In fact, it's recommended that the criteria for weight loss surgery for Asians be the following: BMI over 32+ co-morbs, and BMI 37 without co-morbs--both requirements 3 points lower in BMI than the standard NHI recommendation. Okay, this part is kinda OT from the original topic, but as a point in case.

Anyway, as far as carb *addiction* is concerned. The addiction tolerance level for certain groups of people may be lower, because of some difference somewhere in metabolizing carbs. There may be some social factors to this, too. If you have an effective coping mechanism--be it family, friends, or hobby or whatever--then you likely won't need food as an escape, even if your tendency towards is relatively strong. On the other hand, if you don't have these types of positive coping mechanisms, then you may develop food dependence, even if your tendency isn't that strong.

Hmmm....I hope this is understandable. I gotta get ready and head out for my evening workout at the gym. Meditation and relaxation time for me

[Perfesser]

Originally Posted by DocSanae

I believe there has been some theoretical experimentation with electrically *destroying* certain areas of the brain--a kind of lobotomy, but there are pros and cons for this, especially since the change is meant to be permanent.

Wow, and we have a hard time explaining a simple surgical re-routing of the gut to the worried around us!! Give 'em this as an alternative and see where the discussion goes!!!

CT

[DocSanae]

Originally Posted by Perfesser

Wow, and we have a hard time explaining a simple surgical re-routing of the gut to the worried around us!! Give 'em this as an alternative and see where the discussion goes!!!

CT

Actually, it isn't that drastic--it's done by inserting an electrode to a pin-pointed area known to control appetite.

[Bubblyangie]

Lol im with you ct.....sounds far too complicated for me to even begin to understand..... can we get back to te routine run of the mill questions......?

[Perfesser]

Originally Posted by DocSanae

Actually, it isn't that drastic--it's done by inserting an electrode to a pin-pointed area known to control appetite.

I was thinking more in terms of the acceptance by an average, non-technical worrier about WLS surgery in general. Science-fiction stories have for years had a field day with electrical stimulation of the brain, and the horror stories of electrical shock as a mental health treatment haven't gone away! They actually get better every time they're treated in the media!!

To a person whose mind is made up to object to WLS, electrically destroying parts of the brain as an alternative would launch a great conversation!! (Can you say "ballistic"?)

Facts and logic can be poor substitutes for raw emotion!!

CT

[DocSanae]

As far as electrical *shocks* go, do you know that it is an accepted form of treatment for severe depression and is still utilized? Of course, there are very strict criterias, but the methods have been refined, and it is effective.

If a certain area that is supposed to control certain actions, has gone haywire, and so doesn't control the said action, then, something must be done to restore its balance. Medication is restoring the balance chemically. Electrical stimulation is restoring the balance electrically. Our cells produce electricity through certain activities, you know. Nerve signals are passed on as electricity--sodium and potassium molecules pass through the cell membranes and interchange, to pass the electrical signals by changing the plus and minus on the inside and outside of the cells. How do you think we can record certain *activities* of our body? The first "E" in ECG and EEG stands for electro

Anyway, IF you had the choice, which would YOU prefer? *Restore* your hunger/appetite balance so you can eat in moderation with a normal stomach, but not stuff it, nor turn to food as a crutch, or to change your plumbing so you are physically restricted, and still struggle with *head hunger*.

Now, actually, this train of thought is rather futile at the moment, due both to the controversial image electrical lobotomy has in itself, and the fact that the technique hasn't been refined enough to be very selective of what receptors are stimulated or reduced. As I said, it is still in the theoretical/experimental stage from what I have picked up. Whether it can be refined enough so that its effect is limited specifically to food addiction, and have no other side effects, is yet far from clear.

[clancythecamper]

Wow ~ did I start that? I do find it very interesting, though. Also, if, at some point, they are able to do that with electrical procedures on the brain, what other behaviors/actions might be correctable?

[Perfesser]

The movie or book you want for that is "Clockwork Orange".

CT