[DocSanae]

This mostly is for those who are maintaining, rather than going through the process, or still in the losing stage, and I proably will move this thread to Weight Loss Surgery Graduates depending on how the discussion goes.

A couple of recent threads has me thinking that maybe there's some place for thoughts of what is *normal* and how *normalcy* is.
http://www.renewedreflections.com/fo...s-on-food.html
http://www.renewedreflections.com/fo...ore-noise.html

As most of you know, weight-wise, I have been in the normal range all of my life. Many of you have been able to achieve normal range or slightly overweight range at least, after all your hard work. Yet, following your progress through this board, I think many of you find that where you've arrived at, is no exactly how you thought things would be, or should be. So, I thought that if you could have some candid views on what/how stuff is for someone who's been always there versus someone who's newly arrivied, it might help you align some of your thoughts, and review your changing relationship with food in a positive way.

Rather than just post thoughts off the top of my mind, please start firing away about what/how YOU think things will be/should be/is at maintenance, and I'll try my best to relate my thoughts and experiences so we can compare notes and help you get a better understandiing and image of food and relationship with food, and maintaining a healthy lifestyle and healthy life.

I am going off to bed on this note, see y'all in the (my) morning

[Kenyar]

ok so i'll go first

i cant say i had a clear expectation of what being "here" would be lilke in terms of normalcy. i still feel kind of weird. buying regular clothes, relating to ppl in general. it is all foreign to me.

i somehow thought my relationship with food would have changed, which it had, but i thought it wouldbe different. it is still a struggle daily. at some point i suppose it would be natural. it still feels quite forced.

i expected my relationships with others to have changed, but again, not in the manner in which is has. some ppl who knew me before are supportive, others are not. life goes on.

i dont think the questions i have can be answered by someone who has been regular sized their entire life. i mean i know in the end the goal was to be like you--to "fit in", but if you havent gone thru what i have to get *here* i cant compare being *here* with you. LOL! did that make sense?? im sorry i need to think about this a bit more i think...

[Perfesser]

Like Kenya, I really had no clear expectation of what it would be like, only that it would be "better." Having Peanut join me in this journey has been a great help as far as eating goes. Even if I wanted to, I can't stray too far from the strait and narrow because she'll question me on it. That has been very helpful!!

Some of the students I have in my classes remember the old bloated me. Most of my students are freshmen, though, so they know no other version of me. I've been at this weight for over a year now, so no one I work with comments any more, even if I think some are watching and waiting for me to fall.

As far as "here" goes, I've found it to be a wonderful place to live!! I am happier than I was before. I can do way more physically than before. With Peanut on board, Yellowstone was a lot of fun, as we were able to hike together and see things you couldn't from the parking lots.

I think (and others say so, too) that I am a happier, more positive person now. Not that I was all that negative before, but I just feel better, and it shows in every facet of my life. I am starting to see some of that with Peanut now, too.

I have been the same weight, +/- 3, for over a year. Sometimes eating is boring, but I can still get creative and enjoy food, and we can eat out or at friends without making a fuss about it. We're careful, but don't make a big deal about it. Our food bill has really shrunk, too, whether at home or out. The other day, we both ate our fill at a Mexican restaurant and the bill came to $5.93. I left a good tip!

If this isn't where or what I thought it would be, I'm perfectly content to sit here until someplace better comes along! I am boringly unimaginative about following the rules. I haven't tried to make my own diet, or sneak "treats" (poisons more likely) from my past. Haven't had refined sugars in anything for a couple of years, and don't miss 'em either. The rules for WLS are strict, but highly customizable. Live them, and you'll get good results. Try to keep one foot in the old world and one in the new and it'll tear you apart. I gave up all of that trash when I decided on surgery, and by sticking to that decision, I am healthier and happier than ever.

CT

[Envyvicious]

Normal. I don't know what is "normal." I have never been "normal." Although I am now at normal weight, I am not normal. Most people either still have the weight, are losing it now or used a different path to lose it. For those who did have successful surgery, they still did not have my particular challenges I'm sure. I didn't take a poll, but I would bet money that each person is unique in their experiences on this journey. However, I can offer some of my insights on my path and the results of travelling on it so far...

>I do know that some of my friendships and acquaintances have changed. My best friendships stayed intact. The weaker ones succumbed to jealousy or neglect. Oh well, that is life!
>I do like the freedom being normal sized gives me vs. being really big. It is cheaper to get clothing, but buying food is about a wash on that one. We pay a really high price to eat right in America. Something is really wrong with that. The more unhealthy for you, the cheaper it seems to be to buy it.
>Maintenance is VERY much harder to do than losing the wieght.

Tangent thought: So far I have not been surprised other than by the reactions from people when I tell them how I used to be. Most don't believe it or they think it was easy. Of course those who have lost weight via surgery know it is not easier than dieting. I'm an expert at losing, and have done it 4x prior to surgery! Surgery has a higher success rate than dieting. That is all. Both methods can be failures easily, and maintenance is the true test.

I have not reached the official maintenance point (2 yrs post surgery will be 11/9/2009), but I have been practicing it for 3 months now. It is a LOT of work balancing keeping the weight at my optimum. Actually, trying not to lose too much weight is harder for me. I can keep it from going up easily. So maintenance really means one must work to maintain. Who knew?!

I have to keep on guard constantly to get in the correct type of calories and to keep up the exercising without going overboard. I'm still waiting for it to be second nature, like losing the weight was for me.

So I gave myself 2 personal goals:

>It took me about 18 months to lose the weight, so I have to be an expert weight maintainer by my third surgical anniversary. That seems fair to me. It has taken 18 months to lose, and will take me 18 months to be comfortable that I can maintain.

> Any clothes that do not fit me right now must be given away by 11/9/2009. It doesn't matter how cute it is or if it still has the tags either. If I bought it as I lost the weight, they go too. I am letting go of any size that is not me right now. I have never done that before, even through those 4x weight loses via dieting! However, I think it is necesary for me to live in my reality and to make it stay my reality.

Wow. Thanks Doc! I needed to see your post today. I hope mine helps someone too.

[not quite Barbie]

Interesting topic!

I was thin up until my 30's so maybe I had better expectations of what "normal" would be like. I remembered being able to eat a normal size meal or a small serving of deserts and other "reward" foods, then then STOP. Somewhere along the way I no longer could stop at a normal serving, but kept eating more and more and couldn't seem to get satisfied. I wanted to get back to being able to control my portions, and I have. But I can't eat like I used to when I was thin previously since I can't eat the same size portions, nor can I drink with my meals, or ever overindulge again. So I'm still not "normal", but I'm OK with that.

Body image wise - I look in the mirror and I'm saddened by what I did to my body. My body will never look normal again either - I'll either have saggy, baggy skin or the scars from plastic surgery due to removal of the saggy skin. Neither option is pretty. I don't feel sexy and attractive. THAT I didn't expect. The other times I lost weight (though never this much) I really felt like I was looking HOT. Not this time.

As far as what people think of the new me - I don't give a #$%. I'm me, I've always been me, and that's the way it is. I've been thin, I've been fat. I've also had black hair, gray, and now blond. It's just a shell around the real ME. You either like me for who I am, or not. But don't judge me for my physical characteristics because they can change.

Feeling healthy and able to do things again is so worth everything I've had to go through. I don't feel normal here either - I feel better than normal. I feel like I've just been given 20-30 years back, like I felt when I was a teenager.

I guess my only "maintenance" question is about eating. I know a lot of people on here swear that carbs are a monster but I just don't feel that way. I do eat breads (granted they are multigrain, whole grain, healthy types) and lots of fruit. I allow myself a piece of chocolate or an occasional small serving of ice cream. At a party I will have a small piece of cake. I don't want to stand out in a crowd because of my food selections, but on the other hand, I don't want to eat a lot of bad stuff either. So I'm trying to find a balance that will let me eat more "normally" but still healthy selections for the most part. I hope this doesn't mean that I'm on the slippery slope to gaining it all back. So far, I'm staying the same weight.

So Doc, is there a point on this journey that I will have to eat less than what I eat now to maintain my weight loss? I've read that the malabsorption issue will get better with time so I'm wondering if a percentage of what I'm eating now is just passing through the system, but later will get absorbed and be too much and cause regain.

[Kenyar]

the malabsorption/ correction thing asked by barb was an excellent question. i wonder about that too.

also maintenance in general causes me confusion... i mean is maintenance "it"?

[Perfesser]

The way I see it, there are certain phases common to all our journeys. Getting fat (whether caused by health issues or a breakdown in personal responsibility or some other reason), realizing that what we were doing about it wasn't working and we had to do something more severe to lose the fat (whether through an intervention, serious session with the doctor, or a long critical look in the mirror, we all hit bottom and decided to climb out), finding the way to success (for most of us - WLS), preparation and surgery, weight loss and finally maintenance.

As veterans (all of us posting so far are the class of '07), there's not a lot left to conquer in this field. Except the ghosts of the past seducing us in a weak moment of temptation. Except loss of focus and abandonment of first one rule, then others. Except deciding that it is a lot of work to eat properly. Except getting lazy and slack.

Yes, maintenance is not dramatic. No one will come up to us and tell us how great it is that we look so much the same as last time they saw us. There is not a lot of visible change in maintenance (that's what we're trying to avoid!) But the mind game is perfected here if we want to keep that weight off. From here on out, it's all mental.

The surgery was an event that gave us a tool. We used that tool for a period of time to drop a lot of fat. Now, it's up to us to eat like we should have eaten, every day of our lives, for the rest of our lives. It's a completely different type of challenge than we've faced before. This is where the hard work comes in. Cut their gut up and keep them from eating and anyone can lose weight. No great trick to it compared to the discipline it now requires to ensure long-term success.

Yup, that's pretty much all there is to it. Ain'tcha glad ya took the easy way out?

CT

[Kenyar]

i dunno. i refuse to deem myself a success until i hit 5 or even 10 yrs and i am NOT bloated back up to 260 lbs. anyone can lose the weight thru this method. keeping it off...thats the true measure of success.

i wonder how a normal person lives. most of my friends who were thin didnt "have" to count calories--majority are just built that way.

as for the mtc phase it was never explained. my dr's office kind of just drops out of the picture after 18 months. true indeed i lost medical coverage but they use to call to have me come in and actually responded to emails before. now, nothing. when i call i get the "what do you need" response. so in terms of HOW to maintain, i am kind of on my own. im sure i dont get in enough consistantly, whcih is why here and there i dump weight. im assuming at some point what i am doing will no longer work because all of the intestinal issues will ( as barb stated) repair themselves...or something. i dont really KNOW what i am doing. i kind of just landed here.

[BreeChick]

I think now that the malabsorption issue adjusting over time probably IS why we bottom OUT then go UP some. So there has got to be a time where you just work hard at maintaining what you have, Do like 'normal' people do and get on top of it at 5 lbs gained instead of 20 or 40. for ME that is the hardest thing to over come "fat head thinking".

I find at so far out I can get really 'weird' in my thinking about food. What I have researched in trying to understand it is that what -I- fall into is an anorexic headset of "I don't DESERVE to eat, I don't NEED to eat" kind of a self flaggellation? in part.

So when I work on trying to find a plan that works for me, is geared to keeping me healthy on all levels.

My head can get totally messed up with the 'charts' BMI says even though I'm muscled and stocky instead of super small that I'm OBESE, even at my thinnest, tiniest I was OVERWEIGHT on the BMI chart. Only at the very lowest where even -I- thought was way too thin I was at the very top end of 'normal' range.

Self talk..life...failed relationships..Since surgery I have had a divorce, and since 2003 I have not lived with any man in my life, short term, very short term relationships that have all been very messed up. None 'normal'.

My relationship with FOOD has controlled my life my entire life. I was never thin and got heavy later so I never experienced what lot of women had with being 'noticed'. So getting super small was a whole new scarey experience but also exciting.

for anyone who wants to read some very tough blogging I've done to understand I started a blogspot journal/diary of my working through my issues by writing.

BreeAngel in Love..learning to Love Life Again

It's about my journey toward learning to love life again...
It does have a content warning and I put it in the over 18 content because of some language but mostly because of adult issues content that I feel warranted a warning.

I find writing to be a great tool towards working it out, talking it out, understanding so much.
There is a 2nd blog I have that the first entry was a list of what has happened since 2003. It scares me when I read that one the list is so horrible and long.

I never thought at the beginning of this continuing journey I would be where I am right now.

People are always shocked to hear I had the surgery so long ago. They never would have 'guessed' that I'd ever had to have this surgery. That always makes me go look in the mirror to 'get it' yet again that I AM not fat anymore..I am NOT hugely OBESE anymore.

There are always the jerks in life who will still no matter HOW thin you get tell you that you're fat, that you're ugly even when those day to day say you're beautiful. Jerks who want to bring us down with them so they can feel 'better than us'.

I find that I have to continue working hard to find a healthy medium inside AND outside myself. If I can't be happy with me? I will never find the happiness I seek...it ALL starts inside in the end and then shines through to share with others!

[clancythecamper]

Wow ~ great responses.

"Normal" people don't think of food incessantly. They eat what they want, when they want but somehow it's not an issue ~ they seem to naturally self correct. My BFFL is one of these people. We can go camping and she'll eat everything imaginable, ride her bike some, sleep and read just like the rest of us but rarely puts on any weight ~ until her late thirties anyway. Now if she finds herself choosing her 14's not her 12's she diets til she's comfy again. I admire her but realize genetics has played a greater role in how we metabolize foods ~

I think I most closely relate to most of the things Barb said in regards to my relationships with foods ~ kinda wanting to normalize and eat some carbs, just trying to make 95% of those choices healthy ones. Although, she doesn't feel that she's on a slippery slope, I do have this fear because of my past ~ always the biggest girl there! I have not experienced "Normal" for more that 45 minutes my entire life, so my history of regain does a number on my head issues. Interestingly, even in the past sentence, I don't consider myself "normal" now. Honestly, I consider my self a food addict in recovery ~ that's exactly how I see my day to day life. One day at a time, one choice at a time. (Hmmmm, interesting breakthru ~ thanks Doc.)

CT said a couple of things that hit home. One was "we all hit bottom and decided to climb out". I think this is a pivotal point. "Normal" people don't have these points ~ or maybe at least not where food is concerned. I suppose we all have areas of our lives where we decide to change our lives, in whatever way, and take those steps to improvement. The second was "As veterans (all of us posting so far are the class of '07), there's not a lot left to conquer in this field. Except the ghosts of the past seducing us in a weak moment of temptation. Except loss of focus and abandonment of first one rule, then others. Except deciding that it is a lot of work to eat properly. Except getting lazy and slack." I don't perceive "normal" people as having to deal with this.

A couple of things Bree said really hits home too ~ We bend ourselves over backwards for these stupid charts! No piece of paper knows me, how I'm built or what is best suited for me. They are guidelines. For me, I'm at the top of normal but I guarantee you I could be much healthier, even "thinner", but in a working out healthy way. So, should I be complacent (sp?) because I'm "normal"? When I'm thru recovering from my surgery, I am going to start doing some ab work ~ somebody hold me to this, ok? I know I can be much stronger. The other thing she said, basically, is just our journey to self acceptance and becoming our best self ~ I'm sure this is not a weight issue so much and "normal" weight folks probably have their own demons to deal with too.

Some of the things I perceive as "normal", and now enjoy, are not worrying if a chair will hold me, climbing up onto a stool, ladder, chair, etc without fearing they'll break, or that I'll get hurt (falling at 270 hurts way more than falling at 150), walking into a store and picking up a shirt, whatever, and not having it come in my size (although I still find myself in the plus dept and they aren't small enough!!!), walking without having to stop an breathe every 15 minutes, having enough energy to go all day ~ not being a spectator in life, but actually living it!, not having people look at your grocery buggy ~ even if the cookies are for your kids, they'd look at you like "you don't need that", well, you get the gist of it.

Great thread Doc, I can't wait to see tomorrows discussion!